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	<title>Comments on: Musings on Linked Data stuff</title>
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	<link>http://digitalbydefault.com/2010/03/01/musings-on-linked-data-stuff/</link>
	<description>Matt Jukes: digital strategy &#38; open web in the public sector</description>
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		<title>By: [JISC] Weeknote 3/33 &#171; Matt Jukes</title>
		<link>http://digitalbydefault.com/2010/03/01/musings-on-linked-data-stuff/#comment-772</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[[JISC] Weeknote 3/33 &#171; Matt Jukes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 10:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://backpass.org/?p=546#comment-772</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] also ended up dealing with a little bit of fall-out from my not entirely positive post about Linked Data but it was pretty [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] also ended up dealing with a little bit of fall-out from my not entirely positive post about Linked Data but it was pretty [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Scott</title>
		<link>http://digitalbydefault.com/2010/03/01/musings-on-linked-data-stuff/#comment-769</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Scott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://backpass.org/?p=546#comment-769</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not say, nor have I ever said, the all URLs should be opaque; but we did go with opaque URLs for /programmes because of the volume of data. Because if you have to choose I would pick persistence over human readable URLs, but not for LOD rasons. 

If you can have human readable URLs and persistence then you should do that. That&#039;s what we&#039;ve done for Wildlife Finder - if you can only have one I would go for persistence.

I think I&#039;ve also mislead you re what folks do vis-a-vis data entry. The data behind /programmes (and /music and Wildlife Finder) is stored within a database (as data not html) - to edit the info you see on a page nobody edits mark-up! No webmaster nor content producer. The webpage is generated dynamically from a web app - that&#039;s true for all the representations (desktop, mobile and RDF/XML).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not say, nor have I ever said, the all URLs should be opaque; but we did go with opaque URLs for /programmes because of the volume of data. Because if you have to choose I would pick persistence over human readable URLs, but not for LOD rasons. </p>
<p>If you can have human readable URLs and persistence then you should do that. That&#8217;s what we&#8217;ve done for Wildlife Finder &#8211; if you can only have one I would go for persistence.</p>
<p>I think I&#8217;ve also mislead you re what folks do vis-a-vis data entry. The data behind /programmes (and /music and Wildlife Finder) is stored within a database (as data not html) &#8211; to edit the info you see on a page nobody edits mark-up! No webmaster nor content producer. The webpage is generated dynamically from a web app &#8211; that&#8217;s true for all the representations (desktop, mobile and RDF/XML).</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://digitalbydefault.com/2010/03/01/musings-on-linked-data-stuff/#comment-768</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 09:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://backpass.org/?p=546#comment-768</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tom

Thanks for the comprehensive reply!

Just to be clear from my standpoint I am absolutely in favour of digital preservation and understand the role of persistent ids in that world (afterall I do work for an organisation for whom it it a major preoccupation).  I just hope that we can find a way to achieve that while maintaining human-readable URIs rather than the terrifying machine-generated identifiers I have seen suggested elsewhere.  I can see why this might not be possible for an enormous dataset like /programmes but very few of us are operating on that scale.

Like I said in my post I do for the most-part think the BBC is a unique case in an awful lot of ways if for no other reason that you have content creators producing markup!  In the 10 years I have been involved with large, information rich CMS driven websites I can only think of a tiny percentage of people who would be able/willing to do that (and I wouldn&#039;t be one of them).  It has been my experience that the majority of people publishing on websites I&#039;ve been involved with never looked beyond the WYSIWYG view and only supplied the minimum amount of metadata to get published - the idea that they would add RDFa seems a long way off.

As for the files/folder thing - I regret writing that if I&#039;m honest - not sure why it bugged me as its been a long time since I thought of websites in those terms - maybe it was nostagia!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom</p>
<p>Thanks for the comprehensive reply!</p>
<p>Just to be clear from my standpoint I am absolutely in favour of digital preservation and understand the role of persistent ids in that world (afterall I do work for an organisation for whom it it a major preoccupation).  I just hope that we can find a way to achieve that while maintaining human-readable URIs rather than the terrifying machine-generated identifiers I have seen suggested elsewhere.  I can see why this might not be possible for an enormous dataset like /programmes but very few of us are operating on that scale.</p>
<p>Like I said in my post I do for the most-part think the BBC is a unique case in an awful lot of ways if for no other reason that you have content creators producing markup!  In the 10 years I have been involved with large, information rich CMS driven websites I can only think of a tiny percentage of people who would be able/willing to do that (and I wouldn&#8217;t be one of them).  It has been my experience that the majority of people publishing on websites I&#8217;ve been involved with never looked beyond the WYSIWYG view and only supplied the minimum amount of metadata to get published &#8211; the idea that they would add RDFa seems a long way off.</p>
<p>As for the files/folder thing &#8211; I regret writing that if I&#8217;m honest &#8211; not sure why it bugged me as its been a long time since I thought of websites in those terms &#8211; maybe it was nostagia!</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Scott</title>
		<link>http://digitalbydefault.com/2010/03/01/musings-on-linked-data-stuff/#comment-767</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Scott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 22:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://backpass.org/?p=546#comment-767</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi

As the person that said doing linked data is a hard is a myth and as one of the people on the side of persistence I thought I should try to explain where I&#039;m coming from on a few things:

How hard is it? In my experience the thing that&#039;s difficult is the basic IA - working out how to structure your information is difficult, but it&#039;s difficult when designing and building any large site. Modelling is difficult. Publishing that information as RDF/XML is easy, it really is.

URLs human readable and persistence - if you can create human readable and persistent URLs than that is marvelous and you should do it. Indeed that&#039;s what I&#039;ve done with bbc.co.uk/wildlifefinder. But it&#039;s not always that easy - when you have very large volumes of data (e.g. bbc.co.uk/programmes) creating human readable URLs is not practical: you could do it, but the cost would be prohibitive. And if I had to choose between human readable URLs and persistence I would go for persistence. But that&#039;s not for linked data reasons, it&#039;s because I think it&#039;s important because people bookmark, link to and discuss your content using your URLs and it&#039;s best not to break them.

Re files and folders - again this isn&#039;t about linked data but a recognition that trying to define a mono-hierarchy isn&#039;t intuitive as soon as you get lots of stuff. In my opinion modelling information and the relationships between bits of information in the way people think about it rather than shoehorning it into a file/folder structure makes sense.

FWIW none of this means that content needs to be mediated via a webmaster - at the BBC the none of the people creating content on e.g. /programmes, /music nor /wildlifefinder deal with mark-up none of it is done via a webmaster. They just author content.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi</p>
<p>As the person that said doing linked data is a hard is a myth and as one of the people on the side of persistence I thought I should try to explain where I&#8217;m coming from on a few things:</p>
<p>How hard is it? In my experience the thing that&#8217;s difficult is the basic IA &#8211; working out how to structure your information is difficult, but it&#8217;s difficult when designing and building any large site. Modelling is difficult. Publishing that information as RDF/XML is easy, it really is.</p>
<p>URLs human readable and persistence &#8211; if you can create human readable and persistent URLs than that is marvelous and you should do it. Indeed that&#8217;s what I&#8217;ve done with bbc.co.uk/wildlifefinder. But it&#8217;s not always that easy &#8211; when you have very large volumes of data (e.g. bbc.co.uk/programmes) creating human readable URLs is not practical: you could do it, but the cost would be prohibitive. And if I had to choose between human readable URLs and persistence I would go for persistence. But that&#8217;s not for linked data reasons, it&#8217;s because I think it&#8217;s important because people bookmark, link to and discuss your content using your URLs and it&#8217;s best not to break them.</p>
<p>Re files and folders &#8211; again this isn&#8217;t about linked data but a recognition that trying to define a mono-hierarchy isn&#8217;t intuitive as soon as you get lots of stuff. In my opinion modelling information and the relationships between bits of information in the way people think about it rather than shoehorning it into a file/folder structure makes sense.</p>
<p>FWIW none of this means that content needs to be mediated via a webmaster &#8211; at the BBC the none of the people creating content on e.g. /programmes, /music nor /wildlifefinder deal with mark-up none of it is done via a webmaster. They just author content.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Frankie Roberto &#8211; Pragmatism in URL design</title>
		<link>http://digitalbydefault.com/2010/03/01/musings-on-linked-data-stuff/#comment-766</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frankie Roberto &#8211; Pragmatism in URL design]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 21:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://backpass.org/?p=546#comment-766</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Matt Jukes: Musings on Linked Data stuff [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Matt Jukes: Musings on Linked Data stuff [...]</p>
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